*SOLD* 1968 Ford Mustang Coupe

[brennan67]

There's a 66 fastback for sale further up the main menu what' in your opinion is that worth .....

Hey Jarrod, bit of a loaded question, but I think that at R850k its too much, way too much. I say loaded question because we dont really know what it is. If its a K code its a fair price @ R850k, if its a 6 banger with a now 302 in it which seems to be the case as 302's only came out in 68, so definitely not original motor.

But who knows it may be a GT 289 HiPO K code with the wrong 302 motor in it (its SA after all and anythings possible!) but given the likelyhood its not a K code I would say R550k -R650k max.

Nice car though !

What do you guys think fair value for a FB and how should that compare to a Camaro or others models ?

Whilst we are at it and both the 68 Coupe and the 66 FB are both along the restomod route... Let me ask this.. are restomods worth as much as factory original GT, SS, RT performance small block and big block cars ?

Same goes for Fairmonts is a Fairmont GT worth as much as as tricked out restomod Fairlane clone GT with all the restomod trigo fast and handle on rails parts? Is a capri with performance parts worth as much as a original Capri Perana ?

I like both restomods and factory original builds each has its place and i would even call a Elanor a restomod, all be it a extreme one, but at what point are these highly modified cars worth more than the originals that they are emulating ?

[Buckaroo]

Guys, with the greatest of respect to all of you, when I see " the cost of x y z Mustang or whatever in the States is $whatever" I say blah blah blah.

The reasons - buying a car unseen in the USA from a stranger - well who does that here from someone in your own country - plus it has to be converted to RHD -PLUS MOST IMPORTANLY you will not get an LOA from the NRCS - period - they refuse to issue cars with them unless you can prove it complies with the latest EEC safety specs - which old cars clearly do not.

So forget about what you in theory could get one for overseas - it is meaningless - the cars that are here as a result become more and more valuable - you want a Mustang - you pay the ever rising going rate - good old rules of supply and demand.

[jlebenon]

All I know is I can show you mustangs and camaros that've been sitting 2 years gathering dust and taken on abusive test drives and can't be sold because the prices are too fckn high ,,,, and I see 2 members on this very forum just brought in a few post 65' cars and seem to have no problem with documentation ..... Anyway I'll stick to building engines and leave the cars to the pro's ...

[brennan67]

Buckaroo,

From my side the comparison vs the USA is from a point of view of value between the various models of mustangs not the cost to import and land one here, that is a entirely different conversation which at current exchange rate depreciation is only going up.

We were discussing the value of Coupes vs fastbacks and I pointed out that high spec FB bring lots of money in the USA, whilst the 6 banger or 289 FB are a lot more realistic. I also made mention that a FB is indeed worth a lot more more than a coupe especially on the high spec models, I use the USA as a reference point as SA does not have as many high end models GT/BOSS/Shelby models and to establish the value from a SA standpoint we dont really have the "comparables" that the USA has to offer.

Also I think the SA market is quite uneducated as to the differences between a 6 banger FB and a Shelby GT500, and people think that a Eleanor is a real Shelby. So if I was in the market and you offer me a factory GT 500 at R2Million or a Eleanor at R1.8 Million you know what I am going to buy all day ? but average Joe would not think twice to snatch up a restomod Eleanor.

I understand you are in the business of importing these cars and need to make a profit (thats business) but in general prices for quite average mustangs been sold by the general marketplace are indeed becoming silly for what they really are.

I also take note of your point of supply and demand, but at some point the demand will decrease once the value proposition is no longer there..

I say this as a recent owner of 2 x 67's (one recently sold) so I am all for the increase of my American car collection values, but when mutton is dressed up as lamb I got to call it as such. Most of these cars been sold are not worth the money been asked IMO, but as I have said its not to say that you cant get that money for the right spec'd car.

[Buckaroo]

Hi brennan67,

We are really mostly on the same page.

I agree totally that there is a vast difference between the value of a coupe and a fastback (most noticeably in the 69/70 series) and that that distinction is less obvious here where a Mustang tends to be a Mustang irrespective of which of the 2 it happens to be.
I also agree that the indifference is real here as to whether it is was a 6 cylinder or what exact model it was as long as it walks the walk and talks the talk. Like you I think that is because we have so few genuine Shelby's and or special really valuable Mustangs in their original condition here with the result that our market focuses primarily on restomod rather than original condition.
Restomod done properly costs big bucks and there is the reason prices here are driven up. As an owner you will appreciate it costs a fortune to restore/restomod a 40 year old car with parts mostly from the USA - most guys buying Mustangs are not diehard guys like us on this forum - they want a car that looks cool, drives well and stops more like a modern car not a 40 year old car with funny steering and drum brakes. Ergo it all costs and prices climb.
That's why you are right about the guy who pays bigs for the Eleanor. He wants to out-cool everyone in their M3's and AMG's and he is prepared to pay for the privilege.

[Maverick]

NO!! I think people are really trying to aim for the stars.

Len, I have to say I disagree here is why :

A 67/68 Coupe average cost is $16 000 x 20 = R320k.
A 67/68 Fastback 289 average cost is $21 000 x 20 = R420k.
A 67/68 Fastback GT big block average cost is $50 000 x 20 = R1 million.

and I am talking average prices here not condition 1 which can fetch as much as $80 000 x 20 = R1.6 million for a top of the pile 67 GT big block FB.

The problem is here in good ole SA people are trying to sell plain jane 289 FB that are worth R420k for R1.6m, devil is in the details !

Why x 20?

[brennan67]

G,

x20 is probably conservative I think ?

ie :

Exchange rate = R13.9
Duty /Ad valorem = 25% -30% ? (at a estimate/guess/dont recall)
VAT = 14%
Shipping and clearing costs = 10-15%

Based on this $1 = +-R20. I think thats conservative and no broker or middleman involved.

[Maverick]

G,

x20 is probably conservative I think ?

ie :

Exchange rate = R13.9
Duty /Ad valorem = 25% -30% ? (at a estimate/guess/dont recall)
VAT = 14%
Shipping and clearing costs = 10-15%

Based on this $1 = +-R20. I think thats conservative and no broker or middleman involved.

I thought you said your comparative costing vs USA doesn't include costs such as importing, duties etc?

Buckaroo,

From my side the comparison vs the USA is from a point of view of value between the various models of mustangs not the cost to import and land one here

[brennan67]

Hey Maverick, lol.. I am watching you... see my FULL comment/ quote mate..! hahaha

Buckaroo,
From my side the comparison vs the USA is from a point of view of value between the various models of mustangs not the cost to import and land one here, that is a entirely different conversation which at current exchange rate depreciation is only going up.

My meaning is that the cost of a Mustang can vary between $16k or +-R320k to $50k or R1 Million. For a average to good quality restoration. Not best in class. Thats a massive jump from R320k to R1million.

ie:
A 67/68 Coupe average cost is $16 000 x 20 = R320k.
A 67/68 Fastback 289 average cost is $21 000 x 20 = R420k.
A 67/68 Fastback GT big block average cost is $50 000 x 20 = R1 million.

There is a huge gap in price actually between models and its the same for other cars too like MOPARS and Camaros etc.

So my response was to Buckaroo who was saying you cant compare prices in SA to USA, and that my comparison to USA prices was more about showing their values between base Coupe models and top of the range FB models and not how much it actually costs to import one. My back of a cigarette box calculation was to show the huge differences in values of various models in poor mans Rands and I am not saying its cheaper to import than buy local, who knows it may or may not be ?? (never mind all the other issues, I have no experience in so cant comment really with any certainty)

But I think Buckaroo may be right when you say you cant compare directly USA prices to SA, because its easy to say a $16 000 x R13.9 = R222 k. But in reality its actually more like R320k and thats if you do it yourself which most cant. So probably going to cost more with middlemen/brokers involved. They all want to get paid right thats business for them.

And thats bottom of the food chain average to good restoration standard coupe Mustangs at R320k. It is not unreasonable I think and with a FB it can go way higher as I mentioned for the reasons I mentioned.. haha..

Does that make sense.. (hope so!!)

[Waterhond]

Please help me if I am wrong.

I also apologize if this is irrelevant

If the average disposable income (after tax) in the USA is: R37 793 ($2719).
And the same average in South Africa is: R16 157.

And if I use the above example of a 67/68 Mustang costing $21 000, or R420 000.

Is it wrong then to argue that the above car's price will take up 772% ($21 000/$2719) of the USA person's salary, while a South African will have to put up 2 600% (R420 000/R16157) of his income to buy the same car at the price a South African seller is asking.

...Or double that if this South African would buy the beautiful red '66 shown in these pages for R850 000.

Pieter