This one's for you Barry......

[Waterhond]

Nou daar het jy dit nou !

[Garage]

its called the dutchman element.....fat tackies, jag suspension and fancy knic-knac add-ons...one man's trash is another man's treasure though....

Truth, though you find exactly the same element everywhere in the world by different names (for those getting their panties in a bunch over the offensive terminology )

Mark, I don't think that is the answer to my question though - it is more about the mindset of mediocrity that seems to prevail on so many cars. I have no doubt that the talent exists, and we do see some (yes even in builds that are not to my particular taste). My issue is that there seems to be so much inertia or stasis and very few even try to push the envelope (or themselves) to do better. An attitude of that'll do ( maybe better translated as behoort oraait te wees) and doing the same old things in the same old way........

Though it may be a lack of confidence (how often do you hear:"but it is so much easier in America" - it isn't really at the cutting edge) it translates as a lack of pride. That is dissapointing, but I'm getting over it LOL....

[shoedoos]

^^^^^ agree.....over here its called Tall Poppy syndrome....

[KSF]

Mark, I don't think that is the answer to my question though - it is more about the mindset of mediocrity that seems to prevail on so many cars. I have no doubt that the talent exists, and we do see some (yes even in builds that are not to my particular taste). My issue is that there seems to be so much inertia or stasis and very few even try to push the envelope (or themselves) to do better. An attitude of that'll do ( maybe better translated as behoort oraait te wees) and doing the same old things in the same old way........

Though it may be a lack of confidence (how often do you hear:"but it is so much easier in America" - it isn't really at the cutting edge) it translates as a lack of pride. That is dissapointing, but I'm getting over it LOL....

Garage, forgive me for butting in to this private conversation you are having with shoedoos, but I have to say I think you are dead wrong here.

I am truly happy for you (no sarcasm intended) that you are able to dream up your own car design and then are further able to apparently hammer and shape it out of flat sheet metal using little more than half a brick and an old pair of waterpump plyers ( ). That is truly awesome and to be admired, few people have that skill.

BUT (and this was to a large extent what my post was about), to then go on and suggest anyone else who does not also have that level of skill and knowledge/vision somehow falls short and is to be looked down upon is just way off base and probably grossly unfair and uninformed.

First of all, what if those guys simply have no interest in a custom build? What if all he ever dreamed of was simply a traditional build and recreation of the muscle car of his dreams, be it a Camaro with small block and wire wheels or a Shelby with a big block and Foose wheels that he (as you put it earlier) simply bolted back together? It is still the car he wanted and any level of involvement in such a creation or rebuild qualifies him or her to claim he "built" the car.

That term "built" or "build" is the 'length of a piece of string' anyway. Do you also insist on your custom builds that you should create your own engines? Gearboxes? headlights? Or is it OK to use std items made by someone else that you simply "bolt on" and then claim to be part of "your" build? See what I am driving at?

The other thing is this: All of us petrolheads and car nuts do in reality have our own limitations in terms of not only skills, but equipment, knowledge, space, time and yes money. So we build what we can and what we want and what we can afford. I am somewhat offended by the tone of this thread that appears to look down on such "lessor" mortal.

To shoedoos: Please enlighten me about the horrible wrongs of using a Jag suspension and fat takkies, because this dumb dutchmen does not get it. The Jag suspension certainly has short comings, a lot of them, but it has a lot going for it too and is a healthy step up on solid axles on leave springs. Or are you gents suggesting the only worthy suspension is one you design yourself and fabricate yourself?

And yes, I find the term 'dutchman' offensive, especially in the context it was used here. Also terms like whitey, rock, rockspider, plank, crunchie and boer.

Moering tool, ek is nie sensitief nie, as jy my geken het sou jy van beter weet. Ek is 'n jare lange fan van die 3 liter Fords, ek drink Klippies en Coke en is trots daarop. Onder mekaar spot ons baie oor die ou grappies en as enigiemand nie daarvan hou, wel f hom en sy m ook maar.

[Moering Tool]

All of us suffer under the yoke of stereotyping. I love indulging in making fun of stereotypes myself, but I tend to use terms which are less sweeping: Tappet, spanner, gomtor, etc. These apply to any cultural group.

"Dutchman" is stereotyping at its laziest and worst... I am Afrikaans but don't consider myself an Afrikaner so I am not offended.

At least - I choose not to be offended. We all know the type of takhaar in question, and if they speak dutch, hey, good for them! I certainly can't and struggle to understand spoken dutch!



ETA - I do find rock spider VERY offensive. PK-inducing material. It means pedophile, and that pisses me off. Insult my style and taste all you like, but don't accuse me of pedophilia.

[KSF]

.....so I am not offended.

But you are from Ejelbirtin. Do you even have the choice??

[Moering Tool]

It's the feast in the east!!

[shoedoos]

It's called aesthetics.....there's nothing wrong with jag suspension or fat takkies, but when they are used incorrectly that's when I see it the way I see it.

RSA has the internet so any and all can google imagery/explanation of how others create, yet for some reason many can't figure out (or won't) how to utilise their jag/takkie acquisitions aka the rest of the planet....

Check this thing out, it was built in a home garage, even the panel work and paint was done by its owner who had no experience before undertaking this project - Jag suspension all round....did he get the aesthetic right?

[Garage]

Looks like he nailed it, even though there is a lot of things I'd do differently (and the front door gap looks a little off ;-) )
Stance - check
Wheel placement in the arch - check
Wheel choice compliments the era and body style - check
No silly or superfluous add-ons - check

That is about all there is to it! Even if you're building a r@#%$d, the same rules apply except then guys get to f%#k with proportion too.....

I agree fully on the Jag comments - production IFS has NO PLACE on an open wheeled car. Period.
They are getting expensive though, and lately I'm coming across more and more guys importing Heidts etc>
Which is amusing with it being based on MustangII bits (golden rule of hot rodding - use what is available to make it better) since we never had many of them over here. Guess how many takers I've had for a locally built IFS based on Hiace (hence freely available and cheap) components......

[Waterhond]

No, stance is wrong. The front fender should touch the wheel's lip the same way the back does, or vice versa. Otherwise the back-end will seem "heavy"