Whereabouts of......

[Firenza GT]

I think many cars were broken up as doner parts for new projects especially bought by privateers. As the works cars especially would have enough good stuff to keep them going for a while semi-competitive.

I still say they should shake the whole Classic Race Car tree so hard that all the "apples" fall off and grow knew ones again. Cars like this BMW 530 do justice to Classics.

Fact is that the whole Classic Race Car scene is beginning to stink. Too much infighting and it's not even corporate Group N or something where tensions are like that because it's got plenty do do with econimics. Including this thing that people don't even know if their cars are original or not. That just shows you how really innterested in Classics some really are which seems to be more for alterior reasons be it investment or looking good in a supposed famous car.

The Classic Race car scene now as I see it have cars running monster motors compared to the past. Modifications that slipped through the rules as legal and too much money involved. Money is maybe making nice shinny looking cars but the true spirit of Historics is beginning be no more.

[ZA Perana]

I largely agree, money should be used to creat more authentic cars rather than faster ones....thats just my opinion but thankfully the atmosphere is still good down here in Cape Town.

[Firenza GT]

Not really, there has been agreement and dissagreement and now the time arrived and many of the cars are not legit to run as they did last year. Either it is good if reverting to some more original type status of the cars or it now shows that things were wrong from the beginning in that the cars became more and more modified through time. Inconsistancy or clever interpretation of the rules.

There is all sorts of argument with regards the Scirroco's for example as there you can just go buy new VW Motorsport trick stuff. There are millions of Golf blocks in scrapyards and so on. Plus the cars look out of place in my opinion even though they may be legit with regards the cut-off date. They would fit better in Clubmans in my opinion.

That's just one argument. But the fundemental issue is that when you start argueing like that because then "Rules" allow it then this is another version of legally cheating in say Group N. Firstly if you look at most of the cars they are gutted. that in racing terms is already a couple of seconds just about with minimal else done to a car to race. Look at old photo's of racing. Cars ran with tin widened wheels and full interior. This is the main thing that says Historics has become something else but wearing a Classics jacket.

The next phase should be to build pipe frame cars with classic shapes, moulds of old bodies and placed on these space frame cars with big motors and anything you wish to fit to go as fast as you can with the classic look. That could sort out the politics and use whatever remains of metal cars for road restored classics.

[Hi-Fi]

I think it would be a pity to go so far as to close down the Historic class. What should be happening is that a full on register should be opened on all the cars, which in itself will be very hard to maintain, because as you say, there are a lot of the legends still with us, but with very little to say about what has happened to their machinery and if some guy goes out and buys a Chev, Mustang, Cortina or Anglia, sprays it up to look like the real thing as it was in the past, who's any the wiser?

What could happen is that if someone claims their car is the original, then it's up to the authorities, dare I say MSA, to ensure that car is up to spec and that it doesn't exceed what the original car comprised. The HUGE problem here is that you will find that there are always people with money who will always push the envelope and that is the undoing of Historic car racing! It doesn't only happen down in Cape Town at all. In Johannesburg there are a bevy of Chev Camaros which took part in the 9 Hour races last year and in Historic racing throughout the year. Chev Camaros have never raced in the SA Saloon car championship ever and defintely not in any endurance race when the Springbok Series was in full swing.

What happens in this instance? How are cars like that to be controlled? Perhaps cars like that should not be allowed to race in the Historics class, if at all.

[ZA Perana]

I think it would be a pity to go so far as to close down the Historic class. What should be happening is that a full on register should be opened on all the cars, which in itself will be very hard to maintain, because as you say, there are a lot of the legends still with us, but with very little to say about what has happened to their machinery and if some guy goes out and buys a Chev, Mustang, Cortina or Anglia, sprays it up to look like the real thing as it was in the past, who's any the wiser?

What could happen is that if someone claims their car is the original, then it's up to the authorities, dare I say MSA, to ensure that car is up to spec and that it doesn't exceed what the original car comprised. The HUGE problem here is that you will find that there are always people with money who will always push the envelope and that is the undoing of Historic car racing! It doesn't only happen down in Cape Town at all. In Johannesburg there are a bevy of Chev Camaros which took part in the 9 Hour races last year and in Historic racing throughout the year. Chev Camaros have never raced in the SA Saloon car championship ever and defintely not in any endurance race when the Springbok Series was in full swing.

What happens in this instance? How are cars like that to be controlled? Perhaps cars like that should not be allowed to race in the Historics class, if at all.

I agree with a lot you say but I dont feel that because Camaro's didnt race in SA they should be allowed to race now, at the end of the day we want to see a quality class of classic cars and most of those Camaro's can be classed as quality cars.

Personally I dont think MSA should be involved with classics, there should be a seperate register for that, but to me and this is controversial, we need to make the car look more period, sure let then keep modern engines and brakes because some period stuff is simply not obtainable but dont allow massive no period spec body alterations.

By the way are you aware that in 1970 a Boss Mustang competed in the Springbok Series in the hands of Mike D Udy...just an interesting side note.

[Hi-Fi]

Very much so! It was that burgundy and black thing that trundled around without missing a beat. I remember it at the Cape Three Hour.

I agree with you about modern parts being put into cars. That comes with the territory because we are no longer living in 1965. There should be a curbing of those monied individuals who try to change the face of things.

[Firenza GT]

The MSA thing they have a seperate committee which is supposed to run the show within MSA.

The question needs to be asked, what have they been doing, what has gone wrong that they don't seem to even notice a famous car arriving back from the dead ? What are they going to do about this sort of thing including some standard amongst all the clubs with regards to some sort of limit especially on spending. Radical modifications and all that.

The race car verification thing they must explain how come they don't seem to know what's going on under their noses ? They owe us an explaination. It is when you leave things that they become as such.

As long as there is no transparency with regards these issues this will carry on. Now since this forum for example fired up, there is so much knowledge here that MSA can't store in their little verification office. What should happen is they accept applications and then it thrown to the floor for comment or objections. This could be published say in club circulars or posted on MSA site where we can have access to comment. Say for a buffer period of 1 month then it closes for final review. Not this silently go via channels we were not even aware of with some reports of sorts, certificates issued and there we go a car hops onto the register from the "dead".

MSA can't run this show on their own. There must be public participation just as we pay them fees every year. Be it at the least a Regional Club paid up member involvement.

[ZA Perana]

Very important point there need to be easy public participation, preferrably as you say through a forum and even an easy to fill out survey.

This little 'we are the comittee and we decide everything" attitude needs to change....

[Firenza GT]

Fact is just here on this forum now if we could pack out all our information and cars parked in a row it is probably the most diverse and informed entity be it we are scattered all over the place. Able to be at one spot through this technology.

Just note one thing, besides a few of us that saw a car in question briefly not even in detail, through this medium it was tracked down to it's birth as a humble club racer. No certificates, no specialists just ordinary forum bloggers with diverse interest.

How is it that MSA never even blinked an eye lid so it seems to this MAJOR MISTAKE ? Same goes for road originals. I'd be gratefull to present something I am not certain of with intention to buy to this forum. Chances are few that a faked car will pass through this forum without a bit of scare.

[Killarney Racer]

At the risk of creating havoc considering all the hype about the Corin / Lindenberg CanAm!!

Does anyone KNOW for a FACT that Lindenberg's ex Olthoff Capri Perana is the genuine real deal? I am not looking for any lawsuits here but just want the truth. I have often looked at that car and have just wondered. By that I don't mean that it is not the Olthoff car.

Just wondering............