What is classic racing??

[Killarney Racer]

This is a topic that can be discussed for many months. There are two camps with regard to the way historics / classics are run. Peter du Toit of Zwartkops fame and Killarney. The problem here is that these two don't agree on many issues about what is period or not. My opinion is that a car should adhere to period type mods by and large. The reason why everyone wants to upgrade brakes etc is because slicks are permissable. When did we see Anglias on slicks in the 60's? So slicks mean better cornering and braking, means better brakes, means altered suspension to carry the additional load. Now that is sorted, we need more straight line speed, means a bag of money for super-duper carbs and bored out blocks. So racing moves from the historic enthusiast to the guys with big bank balances.

In Europe and UK there are strict rules and regs regarding period classic racing. We need to look at what they are doing. In the meantime the Fine Car or Marques Car series is the closest to genuine classics this country has. So lets support them. I am not saying classic racing in current form must go, but lets rather classify it as modified racing of cars older that say 20 years.

[ZA Perana]

Agreed: Modified Classics should be one class of cars, there is nothing wrong with them as you say, they provide and show and they should be suported by Marque cars.

However my understanding is that the Legends Series as Zwartkops is for cars that are pretty close to stock, at least from a visual point of view, but then I read about Mini's passing Mustangs and it becomes clear something is wrong.

I think there should be a happy medium between the two types of cars but without proper controld and direction this will be incredibly difficult to achieve.

By the way meant to ask you, as the nick name implies do you race at Killarney?

[Firenza GT]

I agree on that you say.

I hear though that up there there are also factions and that I would is as a result of power, fame or money. Not sure what order that would be but what else can it be then ?

My take on this whole dominating force thing, there is no such thing. It only exists because people allow it to exist. Personally as things are I am quite prepared to not go to racing again and just enjoy classic motoring restoring a car or whatever.

The Fine Car thing still seems to be holding out. The main classics no longer represent the past in many ways it's become so twisted. A solution to that would be to make moulds of their shells and let them do as they wish as long as the motor matches the shell with regards manufacturer. So some of us may watch them for fun and apreciate the Fine Cars more for what they are.

On the other hand this whole thing may have gone to far already. I got to the point I only now go to racing to enjoy some photography and a few cars that interest me. The real classic interest I leave for places like this forum or working on the cars. Until things change if they do.

[Killarney Racer]

I am busy preparing an Anglia which will be period except for front disks which are allowed. Will be on the track next month.

[sixpak]

Had a chat with a driver of a Chevy in the pits between race heats at one of the invitational meets last year. Asked what size motor he was running, he reluctantly replied 350. I asked why not 302 as per historic limits, he sez genuine 302 too valuable, parts unobtainable and pricey. 350 you can rev the snot out of it without having to bond your house if it spills its guts.

Heard, as well, the Ford V8 guys are running Windsor 347 strokers

[Firenza GT]

You can build a "poorman's" 302 just it's not able to rev safely as high as the Z28 motor. Pistons are available plenty, conrods the same, cranks I see on eBay new but probably not the same strength. There were 283 small journal blocks you could bore to 4 inch using the 283 3 inch stroke. 4 inch by 3 inch equals 302 cubic inch. Just that it won't have 500 plus horsepower. Fords, same thing less so as there were Fairlane motors plenty.

[sixpak]

Agreed, but even easier....up to '68 small journal 327 block, 283 steel crank, 283/327 rods, thats as far as cheap gets. Camel heads?, 13:1 TRW forged popups?-I believe discontinued, no 4-bolt block. That should come up to twice the amount of a 350. Maybe I,m wrong?

[Stealth GT]

Its easy to say build a cheap motor but lets take heads for example A set of Chevy camel heads will cost you round about R4000 now lets buy some Stainless valves ,some good springs ,retainers ,cotters have them ported and prepped by this time you have spent more money on these heads than you would pay for a set of Victor junior heads that far out flow in standard form than the fully modified camel heads over heat them once and there goes the camel heads so I think before anyone slams all of the mods that the guys are doing maybe ask them why they have gone this route and maybe the classic car committees that make up the rules should do the same
Maybe in America or overseas you could have all these FIA rules where the standard parts are more available


Warren

[Firenza GT]

I'd say the thing about the original motor is for the sake of not destorying the bock and crank for value sake. Yes sure when you add up it costs especially here in ZA. ok then, restrict the motors to say 400 horses have a set guide that if you go 350 you run say max 10:1 such and such a cam etc. because the original race 302's only had about 420 horses. at 400 horses about restricted they will already have plenty more torque plus the cars are gutted so they score even more still. But to build a 500 plus horse 350 reliable can't be so cheap either.

Just look what Sarel does in the black one I think he touched 19's. That is about three seconds quicker than Basil Van Rooyen 34 years ago and I think there is more in it but it's a borrowed car. My opinion is that although that car is theoretically legal acording to the present classic rules it is a full on hotrod. It's a work of mechanica art but not in the Spirit of Classics as some would prefer it to be.

What sort of horses is that motor pushing Warren any idea ?

[sixpak]

Another is the Wilment Galaxie, it,s running a 500+ci Ford Motorsport 385 series big block crate motor. What with 427 fe side oilers nudging R1bar I,m sure you wouldn't want to sweep those pieces of rod off the track. As far as I know noone reproes 427s.