Someone should tell this guy that it is a load of trash, no one wants it, it is environmentally unfriendly just rotting there and he can keep it as long as he wants, it will always have no value. Maybe then he will relent and say "okay, take it away"
Just dreaming......
Scamp Porter X128 Renault Gordini
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Killarney Racer
- Posts: 731
- Joined: Sat 12 Jan 2008, 21:23
- Location: Cape Town
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Killarney Racer
- Posts: 731
- Joined: Sat 12 Jan 2008, 21:23
- Location: Cape Town
Re: Scamp Porter X128 Renault Gordini
HenryK, do you know if Lionel Rowe raced it in the old red/white colours. If he did race, I suppose it was in the Border Champs?
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Firenza GT
Re: Scamp Porter X128 Renault Gordini
KR as I've said the buckets of money that have got into this game now who can blame him ? There uis a probability the guy may part with it if offered MONEY enough, plenty, enough to make a person not feel like restoring something. That's what's become the nasty side of Historic stuff it works both ways I suppose.
Another way of tracking stuff to an extent or an aid is old race programmes. Shortly after cars like that when changing hands they probably still raced a season or two. This sometimes helps to track a lead or two or at least find some direction in finding fact. For other cars too as we know about this Anglia.
Another way of tracking stuff to an extent or an aid is old race programmes. Shortly after cars like that when changing hands they probably still raced a season or two. This sometimes helps to track a lead or two or at least find some direction in finding fact. For other cars too as we know about this Anglia.
Re: Scamp Porter X128 Renault Gordini
Hi
3 weeks ago was on leave in P E and attended their monthly Classic Car meeting.
Again bumped into Lionel Rowe and as per usual the conversation turned to the Broadspeed Anglia.
I will tell it as he tells it although it differs slightly from what other contributors have written.
He says late in 1968/early 1969 word got to him that Ford S A had imported the 1966 British Saloon Car Championship winning Fitzpatrick Broadspeed Anglia.
He says when the car arrived by boat het went down to the docks to view it. He says the car was still in the correct Broadspeed Maroon colour with a silver roof.
As is known the car was then raced in the 1969 S A Championship by Gordon Briggs in the official Ford colours of blue with a white flash (like the Meissner Escorts etc).
The car was fitted with a 997 cc fuel injected engine. Initially Briggs and his crew battled to come to grips with the injection system. I presume it was the old Lucas mechanical injection system. In any case the car was always competetive on the longer circuits like Kyalami and East London where its top speed advantage cancelled out the handling superiority of the Geoff Mortimer Renault R8. The 2 cars faught some stirring battles. Later and with the assistance of the Niemann Bros the car was converted to Weber carbutettors (42mm according to Oom Koos Swanepoel) and the car became really quick.
This was the year when Peter Gough won the championship in the famous Y151 Meissner Escort and little else mattered to us Escort fans.
For the following season (1970) Ford gave the Anglia to Briggs to race but he had to find his own sponsorship to run it. The car was then reprayed red and thats how it finished it's official careed at the end of 1970 when the S A Saloon car championship was cancelled due to expense and lack of entries. Interresting one og Briggs' 1970 sponsors was ZERO throwaway panties !
Lionel Rowe picks up the story.
In the early 70's he was looking for a new racing project and thought turned to the Briggs Anglia. Living in P E he phoned Gordon Briggs and enquired about the whereabouts of the Anglia. Gordon confirmed that he still owned the car and that it was parked at a relative's house in Walmer.
Lionel inspected the car and found it standing on bricks in a guys front yard, the magnesium Minilite Rims having been sold as well as the seat and other bits and pieces. Also the engine was blown up and the car was generally in bad shape.
But Lionel bought it for something like R800 complete with a load of new and used engine spares. Selecting the best of the used engine bits he built what he calls a "test engine" just to get the car running, intending to build a "proper" engine from the new bits later. He also resprayed the car in it's original maroon and silver colours as he had seen it arrive in the P E docks years before..
Well to make a long story short he says he raced the car for 5 years, never breaking down winning just about everything in the Eastern Cape and even dicing with the late Tony Viana's 2 litre Viva GT in the Freestate. He also never built the "proper" engine as the "test engine" never gave any problems. He fondly remembers it revving to 10 500 r p m down the Killarney backstraight. Even today I can hear the sound of that car coming out of BP as it high screaming pitch could be heard above a whole field of racing cars.
He says he then got bored with the car. After 5 years of just putting in fuel and racing he wanted someting to develop and tinker with. He sold the car to his then mechanic with the agreement that he has 1 st option to buy it back. Well the mechanic raced it once but could not drive. Next Lionel heard the car had been sold to the current owner, I think his name is Lingenvelder or something like that.
Lingenvelder raced it once and that was the last time the car was seen at a racetrack, probably 20 years ago.
The closest I know anyone had gotten to the car was a few years ago when Gunter used all his substantial contacts to view the car. At the time the engine and box was removed as I think the body was being resprayed.
The owner will not sell. Not for any price.
Apparently he's had some very substantial offers from the U K but will not budge.
He's apparently quite a wealthy individual and just does not need the money.
What a pity. This is a true classic and should be restored to it's former glory.
But I've got my scouts in P E working on it's case. The current owner cannot live forever and somewhere someone is going to buy the car, now or in 20 years time.
3 weeks ago was on leave in P E and attended their monthly Classic Car meeting.
Again bumped into Lionel Rowe and as per usual the conversation turned to the Broadspeed Anglia.
I will tell it as he tells it although it differs slightly from what other contributors have written.
He says late in 1968/early 1969 word got to him that Ford S A had imported the 1966 British Saloon Car Championship winning Fitzpatrick Broadspeed Anglia.
He says when the car arrived by boat het went down to the docks to view it. He says the car was still in the correct Broadspeed Maroon colour with a silver roof.
As is known the car was then raced in the 1969 S A Championship by Gordon Briggs in the official Ford colours of blue with a white flash (like the Meissner Escorts etc).
The car was fitted with a 997 cc fuel injected engine. Initially Briggs and his crew battled to come to grips with the injection system. I presume it was the old Lucas mechanical injection system. In any case the car was always competetive on the longer circuits like Kyalami and East London where its top speed advantage cancelled out the handling superiority of the Geoff Mortimer Renault R8. The 2 cars faught some stirring battles. Later and with the assistance of the Niemann Bros the car was converted to Weber carbutettors (42mm according to Oom Koos Swanepoel) and the car became really quick.
This was the year when Peter Gough won the championship in the famous Y151 Meissner Escort and little else mattered to us Escort fans.
For the following season (1970) Ford gave the Anglia to Briggs to race but he had to find his own sponsorship to run it. The car was then reprayed red and thats how it finished it's official careed at the end of 1970 when the S A Saloon car championship was cancelled due to expense and lack of entries. Interresting one og Briggs' 1970 sponsors was ZERO throwaway panties !
Lionel Rowe picks up the story.
In the early 70's he was looking for a new racing project and thought turned to the Briggs Anglia. Living in P E he phoned Gordon Briggs and enquired about the whereabouts of the Anglia. Gordon confirmed that he still owned the car and that it was parked at a relative's house in Walmer.
Lionel inspected the car and found it standing on bricks in a guys front yard, the magnesium Minilite Rims having been sold as well as the seat and other bits and pieces. Also the engine was blown up and the car was generally in bad shape.
But Lionel bought it for something like R800 complete with a load of new and used engine spares. Selecting the best of the used engine bits he built what he calls a "test engine" just to get the car running, intending to build a "proper" engine from the new bits later. He also resprayed the car in it's original maroon and silver colours as he had seen it arrive in the P E docks years before..
Well to make a long story short he says he raced the car for 5 years, never breaking down winning just about everything in the Eastern Cape and even dicing with the late Tony Viana's 2 litre Viva GT in the Freestate. He also never built the "proper" engine as the "test engine" never gave any problems. He fondly remembers it revving to 10 500 r p m down the Killarney backstraight. Even today I can hear the sound of that car coming out of BP as it high screaming pitch could be heard above a whole field of racing cars.
He says he then got bored with the car. After 5 years of just putting in fuel and racing he wanted someting to develop and tinker with. He sold the car to his then mechanic with the agreement that he has 1 st option to buy it back. Well the mechanic raced it once but could not drive. Next Lionel heard the car had been sold to the current owner, I think his name is Lingenvelder or something like that.
Lingenvelder raced it once and that was the last time the car was seen at a racetrack, probably 20 years ago.
The closest I know anyone had gotten to the car was a few years ago when Gunter used all his substantial contacts to view the car. At the time the engine and box was removed as I think the body was being resprayed.
The owner will not sell. Not for any price.
Apparently he's had some very substantial offers from the U K but will not budge.
He's apparently quite a wealthy individual and just does not need the money.
What a pity. This is a true classic and should be restored to it's former glory.
But I've got my scouts in P E working on it's case. The current owner cannot live forever and somewhere someone is going to buy the car, now or in 20 years time.
Escort's Forever !
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Firenza GT
Re: Scamp Porter X128 Renault Gordini
Henry that is so interesting and conclussive information. The Gospel of Ford acording to HenryK !
But I see you could'nt tell us this unreal trail of history without suggesting that this 1000cc Anglia raced against a 2 litre Viva GT and maybe beat it !
Jy bly 'n Ford rasis !
But I see you could'nt tell us this unreal trail of history without suggesting that this 1000cc Anglia raced against a 2 litre Viva GT and maybe beat it !
Jy bly 'n Ford rasis !
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Railway
Re: Scamp Porter X128 Renault Gordini
Henry did Oom Koos ever tell you about his Corsair that got slammed by a train at a level crossing ?
beware of level crossings with your Escort's because we'll sommer organise anoter chopped up FORD !
beware of level crossings with your Escort's because we'll sommer organise anoter chopped up FORD !
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Killarney Racer
- Posts: 731
- Joined: Sat 12 Jan 2008, 21:23
- Location: Cape Town
Re: Scamp Porter X128 Renault Gordini
Henry, that is a very good account of the Anglia. I will have to dig some material out, but if the car did arrive in the Broadspeed colours, and that makes sense, it must have been painted in Ford colours almost immediately as I don't remember those colours on our tracks.
But frankly, if the car has been ravaged and effectively only the shell and some suspension bits remain, I wonder what the car is REALLY worth. Because once it has been reincarnated, it is really only the memories one is paying for. The engine would have been one of the key things and that is missing. So I wonder if the value of this car has been hyped up a bit? If I buy a car I want it to be reasonably original, otherwise I am paying for someones elses parts bin.
But frankly, if the car has been ravaged and effectively only the shell and some suspension bits remain, I wonder what the car is REALLY worth. Because once it has been reincarnated, it is really only the memories one is paying for. The engine would have been one of the key things and that is missing. So I wonder if the value of this car has been hyped up a bit? If I buy a car I want it to be reasonably original, otherwise I am paying for someones elses parts bin.
Re: Scamp Porter X128 Renault Gordini
Hi
From what I understood from Lionel Rowe when he had it the only things that were changed from when the car arrived in S A was the rims , the seat and seatbelts.. Lionel rebuilt the engine from genuine Broadspeed parts that he got the with the car. Also when Gunter saw it it had the pukka works engine and gearbox with it.
My main concern is the condition of the body after more than 40 years. Traditionally works racecars were built as light as possible with no underseal etc to protect the body. Hopefully the current owner has taken steps to protect it against tin worm.
From what I understood from Lionel Rowe when he had it the only things that were changed from when the car arrived in S A was the rims , the seat and seatbelts.. Lionel rebuilt the engine from genuine Broadspeed parts that he got the with the car. Also when Gunter saw it it had the pukka works engine and gearbox with it.
My main concern is the condition of the body after more than 40 years. Traditionally works racecars were built as light as possible with no underseal etc to protect the body. Hopefully the current owner has taken steps to protect it against tin worm.
Escort's Forever !
Re: Scamp Porter X128 Renault Gordini
Correct as Henry said, when i saw it it still had the correct 1000cc motor and the gearbox which had the Hewland id plate on top of the box.....i remember it was a very low number...maybe #19?
RACECAR spelt backwards spells RACECAR.....
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Killarney Racer
- Posts: 731
- Joined: Sat 12 Jan 2008, 21:23
- Location: Cape Town
Re: Scamp Porter X128 Renault Gordini
Just checked my archives.
Briggs' car arrived at CT docks on 7 Jan 1969. On 11th Jan it raced at Killarney in the blue/white Ford colours and came second to Mortimers R8. I was at this meeting and the car was an immediate crowd favourite.
As Gunter said the car was the ex- John Fitzpatrick car, so I was wrong in suggesting it was his team mate Anita Taylor's car.
The car initially raced with Nieman Racing printed on the side. I am not sure if this was Brausch and Jurgens Nieman (now they are another story on their own).
In Jan 1970 the car lost its Ford backing and was privately entered by Briggs, now in red/white colours. The car was unreliable and later in the year blew up, requiring him to bring in another Holby engine.
Briggs' car arrived at CT docks on 7 Jan 1969. On 11th Jan it raced at Killarney in the blue/white Ford colours and came second to Mortimers R8. I was at this meeting and the car was an immediate crowd favourite.
As Gunter said the car was the ex- John Fitzpatrick car, so I was wrong in suggesting it was his team mate Anita Taylor's car.
The car initially raced with Nieman Racing printed on the side. I am not sure if this was Brausch and Jurgens Nieman (now they are another story on their own).
In Jan 1970 the car lost its Ford backing and was privately entered by Briggs, now in red/white colours. The car was unreliable and later in the year blew up, requiring him to bring in another Holby engine.
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