Classic Race Car History

Firenza GT

Re: Classic Race Car History

Post by Firenza GT » Fri 19 Oct 2007, 22:41

Thanks Harry, I like to be corrected somehow I was thinking that was at Goodwood.

Yes I forgot to mention "Big Bertha" the Ventora that crashed and was a source of parts for the Firenza.

Saw some footage of "Baby Bertha" and as well as some of the Little Chev. They look scary. Such was the way these cars were driven those days often on bumpier and narrower circuits than today. I was quite fascinated to see recently as noted that Basil Van Rooyen qualified in the "ex ZA flag" coloured No. 3 Dealer Team car at 1min22,5 and the car which he previously drove driven by Nols Nieman that day 1min22,9. That was qualifying for the Cape 3 hour endurance race on a narrower and bumpier circuit than today. The Can Am's presently racing now are running aprox 1min24 and slower with more horsepower, better technology and superior rubber than 34 years ago. Plus those Dealer Team cars had full interior, trimmings and not much more than about 400 horses.

There will hardly be the like of three such great drivers and personalities from different corners of the GM family and three countries with a common purpose to win. All three, Holden Dealer Tean, Chev Dealer Team and Dealer Team Vauxhall all excelled in the HB and HC based "Vauxhall's of the day.

Note the Torana XU1 below of Peter Brock how raced at Bathurst 1972 winning against the Holden and Ford V8's. It is basically an HB Viva like our Viva GT we had here with a 202 cubic inch straight six motor. Restyled front and rear. Interior layout was similar to our Viva GT. This was supposed to have been a V8 for the street too but was stopped in what was known as the "Power Scare" scandal or something like that. Polititions got involved so the project was unable to go ahead. Which included a potent Falcon GT all destined to race each other at this big anual race which is still held today.
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Last edited by zahistorics on Sat 20 Oct 2007, 08:13, edited 1 time in total.

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ZA Perana
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Re: Classic Race Car History

Post by ZA Perana » Fri 19 Oct 2007, 22:45

Interesting story....have been trying to link the cars for a long time...as far as legends in the UK go there is no greater than the late Gerry Marshal, his driving style seems to have been flamboyant in the extreme, though even Big Bertha was too much for him to handle....of course his lifestyle was similary flamboyant, most race track bars being a familar haunt.... :D
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Firenza GT

Re: Classic Race Car History

Post by Firenza GT » Fri 19 Oct 2007, 23:17

The actual Torana think it was an SL5000 that Gerry Marshall and Basil Van Rooyen raced at Bathurst in 1977 which was the model after the one pictured above, (they did not get the HC Firenza as our Firenza shape), they found that actual Bathurst Torana race car and have restored it. BvR if I have read correctly was invited to drive that car again recently and was overjoyed to do so. There again another great gesture of unity of all three greats in one race at Bathurst with Gerry and Basil sharing one of the Torana's post Dealer Tean days of the Can Am's. XU-1's and HP Firenza's.

Here it just is that a Can Am is mostly associated with "hotrod's, drag cars and so on. But in reality it would have had input from three very famous people from three General Motor's Dealer Team's. In my opinion an original Chevrolet Can Am is more of a classic and historic car like the UK HP Firenza and the XU-1 Torana than slotted into the V8 fraternity as a "hotrod" V8. Yes it is a V8 but with a difference. I think these forums have done a lot already to establish the real Can Am as an all time ZA classic of note. Maybe not the most practical and of refined ZA special (The Capri Perana wins there), but surely the most desirable.
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Re: Classic Race Car History

Post by Harry Flatters » Fri 19 Oct 2007, 23:50

For those interested, there's a vid on YouTube of Baby Bertha at Mallory Park in '76: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBYMeCseuDw

Firenza GT

Re: Classic Race Car History

Post by Firenza GT » Sat 20 Oct 2007, 17:38

Most beautifull piece of history, affectionatly known as "Old Nail". The Firenza that caused this obsession, safely home in a museum. Pic from Sean at DSG.
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Onto some other historic racers, two for now as I have found a load of photo's of all sorts taken by myself since school days when we only had pocket money to buy 12 photo black and white spools !

Car 1:
The ex-Hepburn Sierra XR8 "Animal", not the spare cars and various other copies I can show pics of which I saw through the years, it is said that this specific works car is being restored. Is that true ? Jacques, need your input about the supposed two that were here in Cape Town, one was supposedly a spare car other the actual car. You mentioned something about the one I was under the impression as the actual car being the spare. So far there has been contradictory opinion opn this with no actual fact which is which, the original "Animal". the head's of that car and some or the original internals I know where they are. They are not where some believe it is as initially told.

Car 2:
The ex-Hepburn Chev SS which won the championship circa 1980 I think with Tider Wheel's signage on it ? Believe that car is also being restored, the actual Hepburn SS that won the championship as mentioned. Any one know ?

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Re: Classic Race Car History

Post by TdL351GT » Sat 20 Oct 2007, 17:47

For those interested, there's a vid on YouTube of Baby Bertha at Mallory Park in '76:

For those interested, there's a vid on YouTube of Baby Bertha at Mallory Park in '76: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBYMeCseuDw


Thanks you guys for all the info on the Firenza. I really enjoyed the Baby Berha video. It was the best 7 minutes of my weekend and time well spent. I also enjoyed seeing the dog bone Escorts in the clip.

I would not hace recognised the Baby Bertha as a Firenza. Stunning body work and surely needed to accomodate the wide slicks at the rear. Great looking car!

regards

Theuns
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Firenza GT

Re: Classic Race Car History

Post by Firenza GT » Sat 20 Oct 2007, 17:56

In the backgorund in some scenes you can see at least two Firenza's, one with the Snoot nose which I think is "Old Nail" and another which was a 2 door saloon shape like our 4 door Firenza. Well that car which is John Pope, it had an Aston Martin V8. The Capri that pulled over I think Mick Hill, I think one of them had an F1 Coswroth V8. It was wild-wild stuff almost like our manufacturer's Challenge of those years with the crazy rotary Mazda 323 of Errol Shearsby, Basil Van Rooyen's turbo V6 Dino Ferrari Fiat 131, Mortimer's Chevair V8 with the original BvR Can Am mechanicals. I think the last we had of that was when the Saphire turbo's were running here, the twin turbo ex-rally Skyline converted to circuit racer, the Van Der Linda 300 ZX turbo.

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Re: Classic Race Car History

Post by CanAm302 » Mon 22 Oct 2007, 17:50

Hi FirenzaGT
Obviously your interests span many continents. A brief history on the Torana(s). They were in production from 1967 till 1980.

The first was a re-badged Vauxhall HB Viva. The GT wasn't part of the line-up but the Brabham Special as per the Viva from the UK.
HB Brabham.jpg
After that the LC came along which was a body style unique to Australia - the HC Viva was never sold there. The LC kept with the 4cyl theme but also had a straight 6 of various sizes. The most potent form was the GTR XU-1. Another one of those "GM is not involved in racing" stories :)
ultimat.jpeg
Then came the LJ - basically a face lift of the LC with the XU-1 getting more potent. The 4 cyl format was still running too.
XU1Postcard.jpg
During this LC/J period experiments were carried out for an XU-2 or XU1-v8 format which would have meant that instead of the 3.3l inline 6 the 5l GMHv8 would have been installed, as per the Monaro. 3 were built by the Holden Dealer Team (an outfit much like Chev Dealer Team) but they were all reverted back to standard 6 cylinder cars after the the great 'supercar scare'.
XU2_engine.jpg
This engine bay is of a replica. Interesting to note that GM were not the only ones affected by this "scare" with Ford and Chrysler also having still born projects, though the prototype Falcon(s) are the heat of many discussions best left alone here. The XU-2 would have been the Oz version of the CanAm had it ever made it to production - big engine in a little car.

The LH is the next in line being an all new body and floorplan slightly larger than the LC/J range. Now the v8 was factory fitted along with the 4 & 6 cylinder cars, though the SL/R 5000 L34 option was king of the hill being the homologated race version. No two doors in this body shape.
lh.jpg
Oops, nearly forgot the TA, which was a face lift LC/J only in 4 cyl format.
ta.jpg
Next came the LX being a face lift of the LH and the king of the race track was the A9X variant. the two door was back, but this time in hatchback form. The Sunbird, a 4 cylinder version, also made an appearance.
A9Xsandown.jpg
Last of all is the UC. RIP the v8 in the Torana. This body was only available in 4 & 6 cylinder format again - and again a face lift of the LH/X.
uc 4 door.jpg
And the connection between Torana and South Africa. Well apart from the history being derived from the UK's HB Viva, there is also a driver connection. In 1977 BvR drove at bathurst in the Team Brock cars, 3 cars sponsored by Bill Patterson. BvR co-drove with Gerry Marshall of UK's Vauxhall race team.
76OranPark.jpg
Not sure of this is the 'actual' car in a previous paint scheme or not? Paint scheme would be more like this..
77Bath.jpg
And then Peter Brock & Gerry Marshall shared a car at the '77 Spa
Vdt!.jpg
Very brief history, lots of info left out, but there you go. I guess the only thing that could be added is the 'concept' Toranas, the GTR-X, Rotary, and TT36
1970_Holden_Torana_GTR-X_1.jpg
lizard clay.jpg
Torana_TT36_Hatch_Concept_Pic_4_sized.jpg

Firenza GT

Re: Classic Race Car History

Post by Firenza GT » Mon 22 Oct 2007, 18:10

Thought I knew something about our cars ! Thanks, that was a very informative bit of information.

Another connection was Frank Gardner. He shared the No. 3 Can Am at the 1973 9-hour at Kyalami as well as the Killarney 3-hour. In one of my Aus Musclecars magazines there was an article of a Torana Gardner drove there post Chev Dealer Team days in which he fitted what could have been a spare ZA Dealer Team 302 Z-28 motor. If I remember correctly that car has surfaced and being if not already restored with the 302.

There was also an XU-1 Torana (correct me if be) they called the "Beast". Was a rally/autocross type car that had an aerofoil as mounted on our Can Am bootlids. Their aerofoil was mounted at the back end of the roof ! So one can see there clearly was much dealing amongst the three, Holden, Chev and Vauxhall Dealer Team's of the day. It was noted in a 1973 magazine here that Basil Van Rooyen was to go over to the UK with his Can Am to take on Gerry Marshall at the time racing "Old Nail" before they built the V8 Baby Bertha. For some reason that never happened.

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Re: Classic Race Car History

Post by zahistorics » Mon 22 Oct 2007, 20:59

Hi CanAm302,

Thanks - That's a brillant little Torana article.

I did my head in trying to use the www to research eactly that subject until late last night. So right on time :)

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