1970 Mach 1 mid resto - might sell....

Sell your muscle car
Forum rules
If you are not a regular forum member, please introduce yourself in the Indroduce yourself/Welcome to new members section. Tell who you are, where you are from and some background details. Your advertisements will be deleted if you don't.
  • ● All adverts must include pictures and a price. This is not a bidding site.
  • ● Please respond to enquiries, if you don't respond your add will be removed.
  • ● Please change an item heading to SOLD when it is sold.
  • ● Members are allowed 12 adverts per year to make sure the forum stays an enthusiast platform.
User avatar
ZA Perana
Posts: 7306
Joined: Sun 15 Jul 2007, 18:01
Location: Cape Town

Re: 1970 Mach 1 mid resto - might sell....

Post by ZA Perana » Fri 11 Jul 2014, 22:10

Muzzymad wrote:Addict, the Subject line clearly states might sell......, and it ain't about being humble, but seriously if I don't know what I am talking about, I would ask, who in their right state of mind would think that they could pick up a 70 Mach 1 all legal to drive on SA roads on the Natis system, in any condition for R80K, and at the same time compare pricing to other markets that still allow the import of these cars.

I too look forward to some info on the Mach 1 project that was offered for R80K.

Would also like to see some pics of the cars pzhdbh restored or helped restore.

PS: I too hold a degree, and work in an actual import/export based environment, and not SADEC only, does that make me tell people what their Pride and Joy Muscle cars are worth....nope!
I think comparing between markets is a tough thing to do because each market is different and has different dynamics and different demand and supply structures.

Worth is hard to quantify, I may pay R10k for a second hand Rolex, someone else may pay R50k, neither is wrong but perceptions differ.
Alfa GTV 3.0
Ford Capri Perana V8
Chevy Lumina Supercharged

Wait not for tomorrow to do what can be done today, live each day for one knows not what the next day may hold.

pzhdbh
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed 14 May 2014, 21:05

Re: 1970 Mach 1 mid resto - might sell....

Post by pzhdbh » Sun 13 Jul 2014, 10:26

IndianaJones wrote:
pzhdbh wrote:The Mach 1 project on offer for 80K ZAR
Mind sharing the particulars of that project?
I would be happy to.
Please look on the forum - Rick posted the advertisement - on 26 June - 80K for an unfinished project - 1973 Mustang (Mach 1 shape) - "has all parts but stripped" - which is pretty much how the 275K vehicle was described.

pzhdbh
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed 14 May 2014, 21:05

Re: 1970 Mach 1 mid resto - might sell....

Post by pzhdbh » Sun 13 Jul 2014, 10:43

Muzzymad wrote:Addict, the Subject line clearly states might sell......, and it ain't about being humble, but seriously if I don't know what I am talking about, I would ask, who in their right state of mind would think that they could pick up a 70 Mach 1 all legal to drive on SA roads on the Natis system, in any condition for R80K, and at the same time compare pricing to other markets that still allow the import of these cars.

I too look forward to some info on the Mach 1 project that was offered for R80K.

Would also like to see some pics of the cars pzhdbh restored or helped restore.

PS: I too hold a degree, and work in an actual import/export based environment, and not SADEC only, does that make me tell people what their Pride and Joy Muscle cars are worth....nope!
Muzzymad,
The 80K 1973 Mustang is offered for sale on this very forum by "Rick" and is quoted as being stripped but "has all parts" - not THAT much different from your decsription of your vehicle.

We are debating the market value of PROJECT vehicles here - whether or not it would be legal to drive in SA depends on year of original registration etc. One of the posters on this forum has a business converting vehicles to RHD, so legality on SA roads (also code 2 or 3) is not an issue if you have enough time, patience, energy and a bit of cash.


SADEC?

Do you perhaps mean SADC?

pzhdbh
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed 14 May 2014, 21:05

Re: 1970 Mach 1 mid resto - might sell....

Post by pzhdbh » Sun 13 Jul 2014, 11:02

ZA Perana wrote:
Muzzymad wrote:Addict, the Subject line clearly states might sell......, and it ain't about being humble, but seriously if I don't know what I am talking about, I would ask, who in their right state of mind would think that they could pick up a 70 Mach 1 all legal to drive on SA roads on the Natis system, in any condition for R80K, and at the same time compare pricing to other markets that still allow the import of these cars.

I too look forward to some info on the Mach 1 project that was offered for R80K.

Would also like to see some pics of the cars pzhdbh restored or helped restore.

PS: I too hold a degree, and work in an actual import/export based environment, and not SADEC only, does that make me tell people what their Pride and Joy Muscle cars are worth....nope!
I think comparing between markets is a tough thing to do because each market is different and has different dynamics and different demand and supply structures.

Worth is hard to quantify, I may pay R10k for a second hand Rolex, someone else may pay R50k, neither is wrong but perceptions differ.

Za Perana,

Some of the wealthiest people in the world (George Soros being a good example) make their money through arbitrage - finding mis-priced assets in financial markets.
Cars are no different, just more costly and difficult to trade, with trasnpsort costs and import duties.

Worth may be difficult to quantify, but it can and is done - the smart people make lots of money by trading derivatives, and if you do not understand the worth of the underlying asset that you are trading, and the forces that influence price, you soon lose your boots (ask anyone who has fallen for the "become an FX trader" scams).

The vehicle market in South Africa is distorted by the tariff protection barriers
that are in place to portect and support the local car assembly industry (subsidised by the taxpayer).
One of the effects, coupled to a nominal ban on used imports is that used cars have a much higher residual value than in other markets (ie vehicle depreciation is slower and lower).

One way you settle this debate would be to try and find out what is the maximum price that anyone has paid for an unfinished project in South Africa - I am talking about "normal" vehicles here, not 2014 Laborghinis.

I have never seen an unfinished project sell for over R100,000 ZAR, but would be keen to see evidence of all the great deals done by sellers that I have missed.

User avatar
IndianaJones
Posts: 4864
Joined: Sun 23 Aug 2009, 17:39
Location: Citrusdal, RSA

Re: 1970 Mach 1 mid resto - might sell....

Post by IndianaJones » Sun 13 Jul 2014, 12:12

pzhdbh wrote:
IndianaJones wrote:
pzhdbh wrote:The Mach 1 project on offer for 80K ZAR
Mind sharing the particulars of that project?
I would be happy to.
Please look on the forum - Rick posted the advertisement - on 26 June - 80K for an unfinished project - 1973 Mustang (Mach 1 shape) - "has all parts but stripped" - which is pretty much how the 275K vehicle was described.
You are not comparing apples to apples here...

A 73 Mustang is much much less desirable than a numbers matching 70 Mach 1 Mustang fastback, with 4 on the floor, and Traction-lok factory options.

Not all Mustang's are created equal.

That 73, by the way could not even be a Mach 1 clone, since it's a notchback and not a fastback.

User avatar
ZA Perana
Posts: 7306
Joined: Sun 15 Jul 2007, 18:01
Location: Cape Town

Re: 1970 Mach 1 mid resto - might sell....

Post by ZA Perana » Sun 13 Jul 2014, 13:19

pzhdbh wrote:
ZA Perana wrote:
Muzzymad wrote:Addict, the Subject line clearly states might sell......, and it ain't about being humble, but seriously if I don't know what I am talking about, I would ask, who in their right state of mind would think that they could pick up a 70 Mach 1 all legal to drive on SA roads on the Natis system, in any condition for R80K, and at the same time compare pricing to other markets that still allow the import of these cars.

I too look forward to some info on the Mach 1 project that was offered for R80K.

Would also like to see some pics of the cars pzhdbh restored or helped restore.

PS: I too hold a degree, and work in an actual import/export based environment, and not SADEC only, does that make me tell people what their Pride and Joy Muscle cars are worth....nope!
I think comparing between markets is a tough thing to do because each market is different and has different dynamics and different demand and supply structures.

Worth is hard to quantify, I may pay R10k for a second hand Rolex, someone else may pay R50k, neither is wrong but perceptions differ.

Za Perana,

Some of the wealthiest people in the world (George Soros being a good example) make their money through arbitrage - finding mis-priced assets in financial markets.
Cars are no different, just more costly and difficult to trade, with trasnpsort costs and import duties.

Worth may be difficult to quantify, but it can and is done - the smart people make lots of money by trading derivatives, and if you do not understand the worth of the underlying asset that you are trading, and the forces that influence price, you soon lose your boots (ask anyone who has fallen for the "become an FX trader" scams).

The vehicle market in South Africa is distorted by the tariff protection barriers
that are in place to portect and support the local car assembly industry (subsidised by the taxpayer).
One of the effects, coupled to a nominal ban on used imports is that used cars have a much higher residual value than in other markets (ie vehicle depreciation is slower and lower).

One way you settle this debate would be to try and find out what is the maximum price that anyone has paid for an unfinished project in South Africa - I am talking about "normal" vehicles here, not 2014 Laborghinis.

I have never seen an unfinished project sell for over R100,000 ZAR, but would be keen to see evidence of all the great deals done by sellers that I have missed.
I agree our market is very distorted due to tariffs and you may have a very good point about value and the sale of projects however the one point you miss is the guy who has always wanted a Mach 1, may let emotions run away from him and actually end up paying a much higher price.

Cars and muscle cars are emotional purchases so yes I agree that projects are difficult to sell, I do think if one finds the correct emotionally influenced buyer then they are most definitely sellable.
:)
Alfa GTV 3.0
Ford Capri Perana V8
Chevy Lumina Supercharged

Wait not for tomorrow to do what can be done today, live each day for one knows not what the next day may hold.

pzhdbh
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed 14 May 2014, 21:05

Re: 1970 Mach 1 mid resto - might sell....

Post by pzhdbh » Sun 13 Jul 2014, 21:14

ZA Perana wrote:
pzhdbh wrote:
ZA Perana wrote:
Muzzymad wrote:Addict, the Subject line clearly states might sell......, and it ain't about being humble, but seriously if I don't know what I am talking about, I would ask, who in their right state of mind would think that they could pick up a 70 Mach 1 all legal to drive on SA roads on the Natis system, in any condition for R80K, and at the same time compare pricing to other markets that still allow the import of these cars.

I too look forward to some info on the Mach 1 project that was offered for R80K.

Would also like to see some pics of the cars pzhdbh restored or helped restore.

PS: I too hold a degree, and work in an actual import/export based environment, and not SADEC only, does that make me tell people what their Pride and Joy Muscle cars are worth....nope!
I think comparing between markets is a tough thing to do because each market is different and has different dynamics and different demand and supply structures.

Worth is hard to quantify, I may pay R10k for a second hand Rolex, someone else may pay R50k, neither is wrong but perceptions differ.

Za Perana,

Some of the wealthiest people in the world (George Soros being a good example) make their money through arbitrage - finding mis-priced assets in financial markets.
Cars are no different, just more costly and difficult to trade, with trasnpsort costs and import duties.

Worth may be difficult to quantify, but it can and is done - the smart people make lots of money by trading derivatives, and if you do not understand the worth of the underlying asset that you are trading, and the forces that influence price, you soon lose your boots (ask anyone who has fallen for the "become an FX trader" scams).

The vehicle market in South Africa is distorted by the tariff protection barriers
that are in place to portect and support the local car assembly industry (subsidised by the taxpayer).
One of the effects, coupled to a nominal ban on used imports is that used cars have a much higher residual value than in other markets (ie vehicle depreciation is slower and lower).

One way you settle this debate would be to try and find out what is the maximum price that anyone has paid for an unfinished project in South Africa - I am talking about "normal" vehicles here, not 2014 Laborghinis.

I have never seen an unfinished project sell for over R100,000 ZAR, but would be keen to see evidence of all the great deals done by sellers that I have missed.
I agree our market is very distorted due to tariffs and you may have a very good point about value and the sale of projects however the one point you miss is the guy who has always wanted a Mach 1, may let emotions run away from him and actually end up paying a much higher price.

Cars and muscle cars are emotional purchases so yes I agree that projects are difficult to sell, I do think if one finds the correct emotionally influenced buyer then they are most definitely sellable.
:)

Attached are a couple of photos of the TR6 and MGC that I restored last year.

Some posters wanted to see photos, apparently.

TIMOTHY MUDALI
Posts: 788
Joined: Mon 17 Mar 2008, 13:21
Location: durban

Re: 1970 Mach 1 mid resto - might sell....

Post by TIMOTHY MUDALI » Mon 14 Jul 2014, 08:54

hi there. i think the main point in this discussion is the TYPE of project you are talking about.it is true that some cars do not command a high price simply because they not desirable enough.agreed.on the other hand,if you look at leonards chevelle,which is a desirable car even in the states,he paid well over 100k as a project for that car.there are many other cars as well that people pay top dollar for simply cause it is desirable,sentimental or whatever the reason may be.most of the imported cars from the usa are well over 100k,simply cause you cannot buy them in this country.and they all PROJECTS mind you!!!

if you have a 67 fastback and its a project,you gonna get top moola for that.spares or no spares,papers or no papers.i have seen it.its the car that determines the price,nothing else

just my 2 cents

tim

pzhdbh
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed 14 May 2014, 21:05

Re: 1970 Mach 1 mid resto - might sell....

Post by pzhdbh » Mon 14 Jul 2014, 18:27

TIMOTHY MUDALI wrote:hi there. i think the main point in this discussion is the TYPE of project you are talking about.it is true that some cars do not command a high price simply because they not desirable enough.agreed.on the other hand,if you look at leonards chevelle,which is a desirable car even in the states,he paid well over 100k as a project for that car.there are many other cars as well that people pay top dollar for simply cause it is desirable,sentimental or whatever the reason may be.most of the imported cars from the usa are well over 100k,simply cause you cannot buy them in this country.and they all PROJECTS mind you!!!

if you have a 67 fastback and its a project,you gonna get top moola for that.spares or no spares,papers or no papers.i have seen it.its the car that determines the price,nothing else

just my 2 cents

tim

Tim, you are quite right and you and ZA Perana are right to point out to me that there are the odd very rare cases of project vehicles selling for over ZAR 100K, and people paying above market value for reasons of emotion, sentiment / buying back dad's old car or whatever.

It is actually silly to get into arguments over what my car, house dog or cat is worth (and I am cross with myself for having done so) - each of them are worth what someone is prepared to pay - no more and no less.
Chances are that price will be the average market price for an identical item in similar condition, but there is always the posibility that I could get lucky and find someone to pay a kings ransom.

To your point, some cars locally are increasing in value owing to their rarity - there are still a few barn finds out there that we should all try and get, like the late 60"s Maroon coloour Mercury Cougar that used to be parked outside an informal scrapyard on Modderfontein road near Cape Town Airport
.
A friend in PE bought a Jaguar E-Type FHC rough runner (running project!) "barn find" for 140K last year, so they are out there, and bargains are to be had.

ZA Perana, "barn finds" might make an interesting category / sub-category (just a thought - use it, don't use it).

Post Reply

Social Media

     

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests